Multiclip Workflow

I just started working with multicam in FCP on a regular basis and I am looking for some workflow tips. Here's my current strategy:
1) Log footage from first angle --> capture
2) Copy and paste footage into Cam 2 bin --> select all --> make offline --> modify name (add "Cam 2", reel number, angle --> recapture

Two problems I've encountered are during the logging process.
1) After typing "1" in the angle and logging a clip, if forces me to re-enter this info every time. Should I always have to re-enter the angle?...is this a bug?
My workaround, manually typing in the extension Cam1,2,3 on each angle (after capturing first camera angle) on each clip so FCP will let me recapture new angles. What I like about Avid is it will automatically add a .01 to the copied clips and on top of that, it will let you modify the reel, angle, etc... before capturing.

All of these extra steps I am taking in FCP leads me to believe I am missing something. Any suggestions or helpful links for logging and capturing multiclip footage in FCP are greatly appreciated.

Eric

you know you can add the angle to one clip,
then select all other clips from that angle,
control click on the angle in the angle column and modify all at once.

if you keep some dummy clips with the angles you want on them that could make it even easier.
you can use a text generator for the dummy clip if you want.

another method might be to use Excel.
export your 1st lot of logged clips as a batch list,
open in Excel.
you could batch modify the names there (and i guess the angles, too), which would be a time saver.
then import that as a batch list back into FCP.


hope that helps,
nick

I like the Excel idea. I'm going to try that. Although ideally, what I would like to see happen is (and it doesn't seem to work for me), after logging my first angle, the "_1" remains constant while the name changes. For example Testimonial_1, Testimonial1_1, Testimonial2_1, etc... That way only the angle and reel number would need to be modified. Thanks for the suggestion.

If your Excel-fu is good you can log your first tape and export it like Nick says and do all manner of text search and replace before you import and capture.
Example:
Test1_1
Test2_1
Test3_1
Export and do a S&R for "_1" to "_2"

I implemented a plan on the last multiclip show I worked on where each angle had a Label and, therefore, a colour assigned to it. I changed the label text to indicate this. There's only five labels available so I ran out after 3 cameras and 2 audio systems but it made timeline detective work simpler.

ak
Sleeplings, AWAKE!

oh, i see,
you want to keep the angle number in the clip name.

how about this...

when i did a multicam show, i put the angle at the FRONT of the name.
that way even when i had the timeline zoomed out, and most of the clip name was cut-off, i could tell which angle was which.

1_Testimonial1
1_Testimonial2

2_Testimonial1
2_Testimonial2

in my case it was a rock concert filmed over a few nights.
we used a reel naming system that went: night_camera_reel.
so tape 251 was night 2, camera 5, tape 1.
that reel number was the prefix, and was followed by a song name for every capture,
251_Song Name


might work for you...

nick

I really think you are over thinking the whole process.
Simplify and let the software do the thinking.
Tape #1 - Stage (cam1)
Tape #1 - Dolly (cam2)
Tape #1 - Jib (cam3)
Make Bins by Date
I know the FCP users here log 1st then capture but for me that is so old school.
I Capture Now then sort all reels by time code.
Then make MultiClip by Timecode.

Although I really like that 251_Song Name.
I'll use that next show.
C

> I know the FCP users here log 1st then capture but for me that is so old school.

Know why it's old-school? Because it works.

People don't tend to believe this...until Capture Now costs them a week of troubleshooting down the line.

> Tape #1 - Stage (cam1)
> Tape #1 - Dolly (cam2)
> Tape #1 - Jib (cam3)

This approach is problematic as well. This file system will result in the clips being listed out of order because of the alpha-numeric arrangement:

Tape #1 - Dolly (cam2)
Tape #1 - Jib (cam3)
Tape #1 - Stage (cam1)

And "#" is not a good character to have in a clip name. Nor are unnecessary parentheses.
A better approach would be:

Reel 001 Cam 1-01 Stage
Reel 001 Cam 1-02 Stage
Reel 001 Cam 2-01 Dolly
Reel 001 Cam 3-01 Jib

Personally I'd dispense even with the "Stage", "Dolly" suffices...why put extraneous things into the file name? You can always use Log Notes. Also, it takes all of two seconds to open up the clip and you'd see right away which angle is which type of shot, not to mention the fact that by the time you've worked with the footage for two hours, you'll know which camera number is which type of shot automatically. I never put things like "dolly", "zoom", "pan", etc. (shot descriptors) into the clip name.


www.derekmok.com

Sorry, new to this forum and FCPro as a whole.
I should have been more concise in my meaning as...
Stage and Dolly were references to the cams and not syntax.
I appreciate the correction as not to give bad information to others.

I just didn't understand all this and why (as to overthinking)

1) Log footage from first angle --> capture
2) Copy and paste footage into Cam 2 bin --> select all --> make offline --> modify name (add "Cam 2", reel number, angle --> recapture

AFA
"Know why it's old-school? Because it works. People don't tend to believe this...until Capture Now costs them a week of troubleshooting down the line."

Explain "down the Line"

I've never encountered an issue ever. Is this a FCP problem?
When I log and capture it takes twice as long vs.
capture now and subclip after.

I ran FCP Vers. 1-4 and it was a no go for me until 5.1.2 Intel
I really love the speed and back on a Mac.
FCP is really exciting for me now, very brain stimulating.
I'm sitting in a hotel now editing a 4 day job and just finished
my 35th show segment in 3 days, not 1 hiccup yet. Not 1 crash or error.

>> "Know why it's old-school? Because it works. People don't tend to believe this...until
>> Capture Now costs them a week of troubleshooting down the line."
> Explain "down the Line"

When onlining. When your drive fries and you lose media and you have to recapture. When you're Media Managing to cut down on storage space. When you're exporting an EDL. Just ask Kevin Monahan -- he has to give those same pieces of advice (log and batch capture, don't Capture Now, don't skip timecode breaks, don't capture a whole tape as one clip) twice a day, by his count.

> When I log and capture it takes twice as long

...and you know why we still do it?

It works.

It's the fail-safe way to do it.

When you log and use Batch Capture, if you have timecode problems, you find out before you've done any editing with it. So it forces you to fix issues at the first stage, not after you've edited for a year only to lose your media, and then find out all your painstaking editing decisions are gone because the clips don't recapture properly.

Sometimes we would Capture Now because of time constraints or because something's wrong with the tape. Mark Raudonis, Nick Meyers, Jude Cotter and I have all done it, though it's not ideal. But these are exceptions, not the rule (unless you deal with a shoot ratio of 10, 20 tapes a day, as Mark does -- in which case logging is just not a practical choice). When you do Capture Now, you better have a rock-solid backup routine and knowledge of which files you need to retrieve your editing decisions.

> capture now and subclip after.

Subclips can also cause problems in Media Manager and recapturing.

Nick has brought up this valid point: If you know what files to backup and how to use Capture Now in a smart way, you'll be covered. But if you don't know what issues can pop up because you haven't had problems yet, then it's dangerous to use this method -- it's a good bet that when the problems do hit, you won't know how to deal with them, and you won't have safeguards in place to rescue you.

When I cut a narrative or a commercial, I'd insist that the assistant log everything and break clips up at the logging stage, not using subclips. Hour-long clips often go haywire when you do speed changes, and they always slow down the session. I'd rather spend more time at the logging/capturing stage than when the clients are in front of me and I can't give them what they want because some assistant was lazy and didn't organize the footage properly.


www.derekmok.com

My capture now settings stop on timecode break and preroll to the next logical clip.
AFA recapture... does FCP have a "decompose mode"?.. allowing to recapture
only the needed clips.
Still new to FCP.
C

> My capture now settings stop on timecode break and preroll to the next logical clip.

And that's one of the ways a recapture can go wrong. Not always, but anytime you capture using anything other than Batch Capture, there's a chance you won't be able to recapture the clip and your edits can be lost.

> AFA recapture... does FCP have a "decompose mode"?.. allowing to recapture
> only the needed clips.

Use Media Manager. If you don't want to trim (Media Manager has some well documented bugs and can permanently change your media), you can drag your timeline clips back into a bin in the Browser and use that as a kind of "streamlined" batch list.


www.derekmok.com

"anytime you capture using anything other than Batch Capture, there's a chance you won't be able to recapture the clip and your edits can be lost."

i think this is veering into the realm of scare-mongering

it would be best to explain the issues.

with a capture now, as in "stop on timecode break and preroll to the next logical clip"
what happens is that the capture stops on the TC break.
so the clip goes all the way up to the last bit of TC.
this *might* be problematic.
it's a little like a train running off the tracks.
if FCP overshoots and runs into no-TC it can *sometimes* dump the capture.

but it wont always be the case.

and your edits wont be lost.
you just have to work a bit harder to re-capture the clip/s.

this is assuming a worst-case scenario where you need to re-capture ALL your complete rushes for some reason,
like catastrophic drive failure.

i don't want that to happen, anyway, so i have other strategies:
a duplicate copy of the rushes.
some will have RAIDED drives with redundancy.

if you just needed to recapture the portions of the clips you've used you can use the Media Manager to get there.

ALSO:

there used to be a problem where FCP had serious problems with doing speed changes on capture now clips longer than 15 minutes.
this is going back a couple of years, and it IS better behaved now.
it's still not perfect, i believe, and you may need to do a quick export of the section of the clip you want to speed mod.
i haven't had to do this for quite a while now.

i myself prefer NOT to capture now if i can avoid it.
i avoid it by doing whole tape logging.
i ask the tape to be left tail out,
in the cutting room, i pop it in the deck & log the end of it,
then generally i can guess the start TC (5.00, or 1.00.05.00, or whatever)
if i couldn't make a guess, it's simple ti just let the tape re-wind to the head.

this leaves me exposed to possible TC breaks within the tape,
but i haven't had any major disasters from working like this.


cheers,
nick

> this leaves me exposed to possible TC breaks within the tape,
> but i haven't had any major disasters from working like this.

Yes, Nick...I do sometimes scare my students -- otherwise they don't listen!

But the fact is, I got scared like this by my first Premiere instructor, and that cautiousness has served me well over my career. Haven't lost anything substantial. Ever.

As I said, if you know the issues and know how to guard against them, you're not really at risk. However, Chris doesn't seem to be aware of any issues. So if they come up, he's likely not going to have the safeguards in place to protect his work. So, better safe than sorry.

I do a variation on your "log whole tape" method, which is what I call "speed logging" or "logging blind". I fast-search through the tape in double or triple time, keeping an eye out for timecode breaks or resets. Then I log every 15 minutes, with three to six seconds of overlap. This is an acceptable balance between downright Capture Now and painstakingly logging every shot, with logic, while making notes.


www.derekmok.com

You guys are the best.
Thank you for your support.

"Chris doesn't seem to be aware of any issues. So if they come up, he's likely not going to have the safeguards in place to protect his work. So, better safe than sorry."

So true.

Best

Also... as a new user I'll refrain from advise in the future until I get more than 4 mos. under my belt. Multi cam was so amazing (no multi cam resolutions) that I stepped in.

> you can drag
> your timeline clips back into a bin in the Browser
> and use that as a kind of "streamlined" batch
> list.


wow ... does that realy work ? i always thought the new clip in the browser would still have the same Media Start and Media End as the original masterclip, and so Batch Capture would pull back in the whole thing? or does Batch Capture just pull in the In to Out?

thanks
Andy

> i always thought the new clip in the browser would still have the same Media Start and Media
> End as the original masterclip, and so Batch Capture would pull back in the whole thing?

That's right. That's why I wrote "if you don't want to trim".


www.derekmok.com

thanks Derek ... ggod point, am a bit slow on the uptake today !
and for the OP: you can also do this by selecting the sequence in the browser and choosing File > Batch Capture (or right-click and choose)

> and for the OP: you can also do this by selecting the sequence in the browser and choosing
> File Batch Capture (or right-click and choose)

Never did that before, but does it automatically know how to deal with non-timecoded pieces like AIFFs, graphics, FCP title objects etc.?


www.derekmok.com

its not a method I use personally so can't state definitively, but logically, it would ignore timecoded media.

i much prefer media manager (but NEVER use "Move" or "Use Existing" ... that way madness lies)