Self contained movie ProRess422 doesn't export full clip!!

In the finder, right click on the hard disk, select "get info". Under "General", it should say "format: Mac OS extended".



www.strypesinpost.com

yeah, it says exactly that!
it works so far with the prores 422 HQ codec, but the titles aren't crisp!

That would be odd as there really isn't a difference between exporting a scqt and rendering and exporting.

What happens if you export as Uncompressed 10 bits instead? Does it still stop exporting after 2:52?



www.strypesinpost.com

NO change! Still stops after 2.52. when can we agree on a bug? I mean really, I did everthing you guys suggested and you're the gurus to me...if you don't know what to do there MUST be something bugging.

Okay, I'm exporting a 2:58 clip from my timeline as AIC, export QT movie. I'll let you know if it exports.

What version of FCP are you on? Do a quick test. Create a new project, drop a 3 min shot into the sequence (same sequence settings you were on), export as ProRes422. Does that work?

I did a test just now. I'm on a ProRes HQ 1080i50 sequence. Rendered, exported as current settings, Unrendered it, exported as ProRes HQ 1080i50, extracted tif files did comparisons and did a differential matte. No difference between the two. How are you monitoring your titles? Can you extract stills and post them?

EDIT: It's taking too long. I switched to a sequence similar to yours. Under Export> QT movie, I can't seem to find a ProRes 23.98 setting. So i used ProRes NTSC (are you using that?). Also, I'll be curious about the frame rates now, since "NTSC" will mean 29.97.



www.strypesinpost.com

It's 6.05.
I told you. I exported a 3 minutes movie before with the same settings, the titles were clear and it exported the full length!
I Could extract stills and post them but then again: it's for practicing purposes...it's a trailer on the bucket list! and I don't know if I'm aloud to post it here. you could watch it on youtube too and see how bad the quality is but I'm not sure either if I should post that link here.
I'm using this stuff to apply at agencies around here and I just thought it seems to unprofessional if everything's really cool and then...the titles suck.
I did not monitor those titles cos I thought if they don't seem crisp here they surely won't seem right on the monitor, right?
I used a NTSC setting of 23.98 fps since the original footage is 23.98.

Clip exported. It doesn't export the full clip. My export stops somewhere at 2:27, and cuts off the rest. So yea, here's your bug. But the settings.....

What settings are you on for the export? Coz the ProRes presets doesn't give me a 23.98 setting in export>QT movie. It only gives me ProRes NTSC (which is 29.97), which means FCP converts your frame rates. That's not going to be good for movement.

And also, i did a differential matte. There doesn't seem to be a difference in quality between rendering and exporting under current settings and exporting to that same settings.

Just created a custom preset for ProRes at 23.98 (and yea, I can settings for render quality in the next tab, so that's how the render quality is determined). Exporting that now.

The default "ProRes NTSC" setting gives you 29.97 AND D1 frame size. Won't advise you do that, as that will result in choppier movement (FCP converts the frame rates via rendering) and distorts the picture (stretching it out by 6 additional lines). You can tell by running that in QT pro.



www.strypesinpost.com

My sequence settings are on 23.98. then I select export>qt and then I just select the destination and choose the codec which was prores 422 or poress 422 hq. there's nothing more to select...
maybe the default ntsc setting is 29.97...but the original footage was 23.97. what should I do about it? I mean, I can't change it before exporting.

Got this. Sorry I didn't see this earlier as I don't work in NTSC frame rates at all. (i'm just waiting for Derek to come in and kick my butt ).

I believe FCP chokes up if you export in a different frame rate.

I created a custom preset to export ProRes at 23.98 and at the same frame size as your sequence (NTSC DV, 720x480) and exported the little HD clip that i inserted into the timeline (ProRes, 23.98, 720x480) as a test. It exported the full clip.

However, FCP did not export the full clip (stops around 2:30 of a 3:03 clip) when I inserted a clip into a timeline (Prores, 720x480, 23.98) and exported as "ProRes NTSC" under export>QT movie. Also, the frame rate and frame size changed during the export, as I expected.

This is because, if you select "ProRes NTSC" in export>QT movie, your footage gets rendered out as ProRes, 29.97 (NTSC frame rates), 720x486 (default ProRes frame size for NTSC). Won't advise you to do this, as your images gets distorted and the motion becomes choppy (rendering is not how you will like to convert frame rates).

What you can do, actually, if you like that effect, is to create a new sequence, go to sequence settings, load sequence preset, select the "Apple ProRes NTSC" preset, go to your original sequence, copy everything in that sequence and paste it in that new sequence. Render down and export a self contained quicktime movie.



www.strypesinpost.com

I feel like I got a blitz of information and disparate tests that weren't quite "step-by-step" enough for my taste, in terms of troubleshooting. I don't think what I've seen completely rules out certain things.

> That would be odd as there really isn't a difference between exporting a scqt and rendering
> and exporting.

There is a difference, though. As in the different options available during the export process. Export - QuickTime Movie gives you settings available in your FCP Sequence Presets; Export - Using QuickTime Conversion gives you settings available in QuickTime Player.

Let me check a few things:

1. Did you check FCP System Settings, "Limit Export File Segment Size"?

I just did a test, for example, where I set an "Export Limit" to 500MB (ridiculously low). Export - QuickTime Movie of a three-minute DV clip resulted in a clip and a half (the main movie file and an additional, dreaded "-av" file). But Export - QuickTime Conversion ignored that 500MB limit and yielded one DV file with all three minutes at 651MB.

2. You say Export - QuickTime Movie results in a movie file that stops at a certain point, 2:52. Is that certain point a specific shot? Do subsequent exports always stop at the same point? Does a certain shot begin there?

3. If you copy the contents of your current sequence to a brand-new FCP project file with a brand-new, does the issue still exist?

4. How full are all your drives? Not just drives being used in the edit, but your system drive, internal drives etc.

5. If you did the export to another drive location (eg. your system drive), does the problem persist?

6. Personally, I feel like we need to actually your timeline and Sequence Settings. Can you post a screenshot? Also, post a screenshot of the settings you used when using the failed Export - QuickTime Movie operation, and another of the settings you used on Export - Using QuickTime Conversion.


www.derekmok.com

but I'm just selecting ntsc prores 422 48 khz ... nothing more. the frame rate in the sequence timeline is 23.98! there's nothing more to select. so why should FCP assume I wanna change the frame rate while exporting? that doesn't make sense.

> but I'm just selecting ntsc prores 422 48 khz ... nothing more.

When using Export - QuickTime Movie, you're supposed to leave "Current Settings" alone (that means you will get the exact settings as your Sequence). Did you do that? If you chose another option, then FCP will convert your exported movie file to that new setting.


www.derekmok.com

Okay, a bit of video terminology. Although we do use the term "NTSC" a bit loosely these days (we'd refer to either the frame rate or frame size used in certain regions).

"NTSC" is the analog SD broadcast standard in North America. The frame size is set at 720x486 and the frame rate at 29.976 (also commonly referred to as 29.97 and less commonly as 30). The frame rate is actually set so that electrical alternating currents do not break up the picture, and the awkward non-integer value is because of an issue with the transition to color (initially, it was 30 fps).

Hope that clears up the confusion. Sorry it got a bit messy.



www.strypesinpost.com

Hi Derek,
1. there's no limit checked for export.
2. no, it stops a couple of frames before the end of a normal shot. followed by another normal shot which it doesn't export anymore.
3. I tried carrying the sequence to a new sequence, just tried opening it up in a new project: not working.
4. all the drives are like half full or have a capacity of 2/3 and more.
5. yes the problem is still there
6. I have to post these tomorrow. it's 2.15 am in Germany and I really need to get some sleep now.
I'm sitting on that damn problem since 3 pm now...unbelievable!

derekmok Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > but I'm just selecting ntsc prores 422 48 khz
> ... nothing more.
>
> When using Export - QuickTime Movie, you're
> supposed to leave "Current Settings" alone (that
> means you will get the exact settings as your
> Sequence). Did you do that? If you chose another
> option, then FCP will convert your exported movie
> file to that new setting.

I can't! If I do, the titles don't get crisp! It just gets sharp when I set it to prores 422 WHILE exporting! I'll post screen shots of my export windows tomorrow.

> I can't! If I do, the titles don't get crisp!

Crisp where? Where are you watching your titles? If you're watching on a computer monitor -- with the movie files you're ending up with (however you get them), do you have High Quality in QuickTime Player checked? What about when you're watching the Sequence itself, before export? Are the titles clear there, and are you using an external monitor?


www.derekmok.com

Lemme try to sum this up again.

1. Exporting your ProRes 23.98 720x480 sequence as "ProRes NTSC" changes the frame rates and frame size, so you really don't want to do that. Changing frame rates is where the export messes up. (I just tried it). Usually we render and export under current settings.

2. You need to check where you are monitoring your titles and how they are created. [www.lafcpug.org]



www.strypesinpost.com

I think now we're getting somewhere...
@Derek: I'm watching the titles on a computer display. They are crisp AFTER export, not before. I watched them too on my external monitor...but nothing changed. High quality is checked.

@strypes: I just checked and realized that the Livetype titles are 29.98 NOT 23.98. That's why they are only crisp and clear when I export with settings: prores 422. "current settings" doesn't suffice for the titles because they have a different frame rate!
Now...the clips are 23.98 and the titles are 29.98 ... that might explain why it has problems exporting or even stops exporting, or not?
Is there a way to convert the titles in Livetype to 23.98...before exporting them to FCP? I never found out where I can adjust settings there.

>I just checked and realized that the Livetype titles are 29.98 NOT 23.98

It is possible. You checked it in livetype? Yea, FCP will render to change frame rate if the source framerate is not the same as the sequence/export framerate. Not good.

Also, make sure you have your canvas size set to 100% to have a decent gauge on quality. Better if you can connect a broadcast monitor.

What stops exporting, is because the original clips are 23.98 and "ProRes NTSC" is 29.97. NLEs are not good for converting frame rates. Even when you copy and paste a sequence into a timeline with a different framerate, you need to check for gaps.

In LiveType, apple 0 for project properties..



www.strypesinpost.com

ahhhhh, just found where you change the settings in livetype (I don't use it that often)!
I'll try it right away...
I realized what was happening when I created a 29.97 sequence and slips all the clips and titles in (I know it doesn't work that way) and saw that the titles were crisp in there.
Now I'll try changing the frame rate in Livetype...

guys, it works!
I changed the settings in Livetype and now the titles are cristall clear in FCP. yeahhhh
thanks strypes and Derek for staying with me!

Gutentag Katrin,
Right click on the drive and the Get Info window will tell you your drive formatting.

Viel glück!

Hallo Kevin,
wie gehts?
it says: Mac Os Extended (Journaled)

[It's 4GBs. The difference, apparently, is whether the file format uses signed or unsigned integers.]

New number to me! This is worth testing. Somebody format a drive to FAT32 under OSX Disk Utility and see what can be captured before the usual truncation occurs? List the OSX version too. It'll end up in the Wiki.

To Katrin's odd problem: I thought drive issues were the first place to look and and I was all comfy with the idea that her ProRes422 encode was easily coming in under 2GB but that her native export was not-- possibly because of additional LiveType handling.

Dunno. But while FAT32 spec's at a "maximum possible file size of 4GB" I've always understood the max to be 2GB and that has held out in fact-- the most obvious signs are QT files with oddball "filename.mov - a-o" and stuff like that. So I'm curious if this signed or unsigned setting is uniquely established when formatting under MacOSX.

Katrin writes-
[it says: Mac Os Extended (Journaled)]

Turn off that Journaling! That's for your system drive, not Scratch Disks! It's a "secretary's backup" option which interferes with media drive performance.

I use TechTool Pro 4. x to do that, but there may be other utilities which allow disabling without affecting data.

- Loren
Today's FCP keytip:

Copy a clip, Paste Overwrite with Command-V, but
Paste Insert with Shift- V !

Final Cut Studio 2 KeyGuide? Power Pack.
Now available at KeyGuide Central.
www.neotrondesign.com

>I was all comfy with the idea that her ProRes422 encode was easily coming in under 2GB but
>that her native export was not

Initially I thought that it was a FAT32/ProRes HD export, but when I tried to do a similar export, I realized I couldn't find an SD ProRes setting for 23.98 or a DV frame size. So I was guessing it was the changing frame rates that was messing up the export (shouldn't do that in the first place). And I couldn't export a 1080i50 clip from a ProRes 23.98 sequence without the video cutting off at around 2:30. I've over 1TB of free space on the drive and I've a half hour ep in ProRes HQ on the drive, so i can confirm it's not a drive formatting issue and that this is replicable.

FAT32 has a 4 GB limit. That's the file system. From what I gather, the 2 GB limit is imposed by the way the software/format/container is written. When signed integers are used, file size for those formats are limited to 2 GB (eg. omf). Wav files cannot exceed 4GBs, and I think it's 2 GBs for aiff. Panasonic's P2s span clips larger than 4GBs as the cards are FAT32 for cross platform compatibility.



www.strypesinpost.com

[When signed integers are used, file size for those formats are limited to 2 GB (eg. omf). Wav files cannot exceed 4GBs, and I think it's 2 GBs for aiff. Panasonic's P2s span clips larger than 4GBs as the cards are FAT32 for cross platform compatibility.]

A knowledge enhancement, thank you, G!

- Loren
Today's FCP keytip:

Copy a clip, Paste Overwrite with Command-V, but
Paste Insert with Shift- V !

Final Cut Studio 2 KeyGuide? Power Pack.
Now available at KeyGuide Central.
www.neotrondesign.com

Loren Miller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Turn off that Journaling! That's for your system
> drive, not Scratch Disks! It's a "secretary's
> backup" option which interferes with media drive
> performance.
>
> I use TechTool Pro 4. x to do that, but there may
> be other utilities which allow disabling without
> affecting data.
>

Where's a good place to download that? here: [www.versiontracker.com]
or here: [www.cnet.de]
Is that what you meant?
And after installing, does it tell me how to turn journalling off?

You should be able to do that in Disk Utility. Not sure if they took that out in Leopard.



www.strypesinpost.com