OT: Camera

I know it's not directly a FCP question, but I know a lot of you guys are also filmmakers, so I thought I could try.
I am wondering which camera I should go for. Something that FCP "likes" to handle of course.
I have around $1,000 and was considering the DVX 100, but I would love to know what people recommend.
All I want to do is shoot stuff to play around and learn how to use the parameters on a semi pro camera.

When it's not a FCP topic, please put an "OT:" (Off Topic) at the beginning of your post. Thanks. (took care of it for you)

That said, I just bought the best camera I ever owned - the Canon HF S10 Dual FLASH (no tapes) HD Camcorder and it rocks HARD. It records in FULL 1920 x 1080 (not that 1440 x 1080 stretched garbage) to either an on-board 32 GB FLASH drive or SDHC FLASH cards (total up to 64 GB of storage at one time). 24p, 30p & 60i modes. VERY CUSTOMIZABLE. It has a built-in 8 MP still camera. Best thing is FCP sees the camera through Log & Transfer and converts the MTS files to ProRes by default. VERY Apple / FCP friendly I could gush for hours and list all the features...but why when there's this:

[www.usa.canon.com]





MSRP = $1299 (I found it for $1084)

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Quote

It records in FULL 1920 x 1080 (not that 1440 x 1080 stretched garbage)

You mean that 1440x1080 stretched garbage that the Sony F900 shoots? Yeah, that format really stinks.

Joey,
What kind of 24p "cinema mode" is it? 24 pulled down to 30? Standard or advanced? My guess is that it's 24 standard pull down over 30 but that camera is an otherwise surprising collection of features so you never know. Must keep eyes peeled, looks like a good one for recording comedy sets and gaffing to the FOH for documentation. Thanks for the 411.

ak
Sleeplings, AWAKE!

Thanks. Sounds pretty sweet and nobody has posted any negative comments or other options.

Talking about HDV, Jeff...but I should have know it would be you to find fault with that statement.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Or maybe, given the little winky face, I was just teasing you a little bit.

Quote

Thanks. Sounds pretty sweet and nobody has posted any negative comments or other options.

I did 3 months of research before the camera actually launched in April. I have never seen a consumer camera so fully loaded with useful features & manual controls. I have had it for 2 weeks and I haven't stopped playing with the settings. I am no shooter by any stretch. I direct camera set-ups & framing, but I am not a DP. I just know what looks good. From my research, the 24p & 30p modes are recorded @ 60i (do not ask me...ask Canon).

I am uploading an example clip for a short while. Here's a highly compressed H264 of a fishtank I shot in the lobby of my Studio on Friday. Standard 60i set-up in Cinemode (which changes the color and tonal characteristics, evoking the look and feel of a movie shown in a theater):

[www.digidojo.net]

I need to play more with 24p / 30p. GREAT CAMERA!!

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

by the way I took note of the OT thing, thanks.

Do you have any control over the shutter speed and aperture or it is all automatic?
How does it handle poor lighting, like let's say concerts (I have an upcoming job coming)

it looks amazing!!!! Whaoo!
thanks!

THis is what I am: not a dp, but i too know what looks good and I am good at composition and at finding nice angles. Like you, i'd like to play around but also try to understand how to manipulate shutter speed and aperture.

Yes...you can control the TON of features (Aperture, mic level, shutter, focus, AGC limit, Assist Functions, and more). It has a built-in AGC (Automatic Gain Control) that jacks up the gain over 18db in dark situations but if you don't control it, it gets pretty grainy. I set mine manually to 12db and the blacks stay black. I hooked up the camera to my 47" Vizio and I canot believe the images that come out of this little tapeless unit. It's really ALL LENS with a 2/3 CMOS Chip.

Like I said...I am far too inexperienced with this unit still. I cannot recommend it for a poor lighting job as I do not know how it will perform - I am still testing. I have only used it sparingly in poor lighting conditions. It has a cool pop up flash tha has a super-powerful litle LED Camera Light on it. Nice little fill for a quick interview. I am going to plant it on my Steadicam JR and fly it around - post some more examples soon.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

BTW...in MXP Mode (Highest resolution - 24 mbps), a 16 GB SDHC card holds about 1 hour 25 minutes. I would recommend keeping a handfull of these cards handy. They MUST BE CLASS 4 OR ABOVE to handle HD video at the native frame rate (I purchased 4 - 16 GB Class 6 SDHC cards on Amazon for $41 each). DO NOT skimp on crap cards - you will get burned.

I would also recommend extra batteries. It comes with one BP-807 2-hr battery and I purchased 2 - BP-827 4-hr batteries ($140 each). Stick with Canon batteries & chargers...I am told that 3rd party batteries DO NOT work with the Canon Camera Charger and they are not "Intellingent" so they do not tell you how much time is left in the viewfinder. This is what I heard through research.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

I am going to plant it on my Steadicam JR and fly it around - post some more examples soon.


I'd like to see those results. Rolling shutter etc.

Quote
grafixjoe
It's really ALL LENS with a 2/3 CMOS Chip

The "Canon VIXIA HF S10 HD Digital Camcorder" has a 2/3 CMOS chip? That pretty good for such a small camera. I've read elsewhere that the camera isn't good for shooting in low light. I alway thought a 2/3 chip was good in low light?

Quote

I've read elsewhere that the camera isn't good for shooting in low light. I alway thought a 2/3 chip was good in low light?

I tend to NOT listen to people writing (always consider the source)...and let the visuals do the talkin'. Here's are 2 short clips - low light (click "HD" to see high rez version):









When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Hey Joey, thanks.

I don't really see any noise in the dark areas. Pretty darn good for a small camcorder. I'm waiting for the Scarlet Red to come out but I might get me one of those for now. The only thing I wish it had is a viewfinder. Shooting out in the bright sun here in Arizona makes it hard to see what you are filming with just a pop out monitor.

Not sure where you got the 2/3" thing, Joey. The HF S10 has a 1/2.6" sensor, or a little bigger than 1/3".

And Russ, all things being equal, a bigger sensor will do better in low light than a smaller sensor. The reason why is pretty obvious if you think about it: With the same number of pixels, a bigger sensor has bigger pixels. That means each pixel will receive more photons per exposure, hence better low-light performance and less noise.

But again, I said "all things being equal." All things rarely are equal.

Jeff's right about the size...don't know what I was looking at when I saw that.

The camera DOES have a 1/2.6" 8.59 Megapixel HD CMOS image sensor, similar to the CMOS image sensors in Canon's EOS Series Digital SLR cameras. THAT MAKES THAT LOW LIGHT SAMPLE FOOTAGE EVEN MORE COOL, dontcha think??

THIS IS QUOTED FROM FROM THE CANON CAMERA PAGE:

The VIXIA HF S10's powerful CMOS image sensor provides high color resolution and advanced color reproduction for brilliant results. It is also unique in featuring Canon's proprietary noise reduction technologies for crisp, sharp images. Low noise technology also means that even in dimly lit scenes, the signal from each pixel is as pure as possible, with minimal noise or other aberrations. It's the ideal sensor for HD.

The VIXIA HF S10 uses an RGB Primary Color Filter with Bayer Placement Pattern that separates light into red, green and blue color components. This results in vibrant images with deep, rich, accurate color and natural-looking tones similar to what you'd obtain from 3CCD camcorders. In addition, the Bayer Placement Pattern delivers sharp, high definition images with true-to-life color reproduction. As an added benefit, the CMOS sensor provides outstanding image capture in low light conditions.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Russ,

I thought the viewfinder being gone was going to be a deterrent...but it's not. I recorded out in the 100 degree Orlando bright sun last week - no problems. I can still see the monitor and there is a "focus assist" feature that is cool beans. When you go into manual focus and you move the joystick, lens automatically snaps into a built-in digital tele-converter that zooms way in on the subject so you can focus. I find I take a lot less blurry stills than with my Nikon!

Also there's A/V Out / HDMI / Component / USB 2.0 so you an use a field monitor with a hood or a laptop if you wish.

Obviously this is no RED Scarlet...but it is a great little "swiss army knife" option for B-roll & Production stills. It is priceless having 2 cameras in one for me.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Very nice, Joe.
thanks for sharing your work/tests.
I guess you sold me on it.
I wish Bestbuy would have it available... I am leaving Tuesday for a long trip and would have loved to get the camera with me...

I don't have the URL but I saw some guy in Holland had hooked one of these cameras up to a Redrock Micro rig with some nice lens' and stuff made a little camera look big and almost professional he swore shots looked great. Philip Bloom one of the hottest video guys in the UK had one of these cams at NAB and loved it.

------------------------
Dean

"When I see you floating down the gutter I'll give you a bottle of wine."
Captain Beefheart, Trout Mask Replica.

Joey,

I was just worried not having a viewfinder because for the last 3 weeks I was hired to shoot behind-the-scenes footage during a movie shoot on an outside western movie set in the blazing hot sun, and could not use the flip-out monitor. I couldn't even see it. I was using the Panasonic HVX200A DVCPRO HD P2 Camera, which the Director lent me... Maybe the monitor on the S-10 is just different technology so you can see it better in the bright sun.

It looks like the Canon Vixia HF S100 is the same camera except no built-in memory, and that's fine with me. I rather use the cards anyway for many reasons.

Thanks for the info... and Bestbuy does not carry it here in Tucson. Probably in the bigger cities they do.

I have seen the footage of the Canon S10 and was fairly impressed, however, I didn't care for the lack of a viewfinder, there's no hot shoe to place a light like the litepanels and no XLR mic imputs. It is so small and lightweight that doing any hand held shots would be very challenging. Not even sure whether it has assignable buttons for quick white balance changes.
Steve

steve-sharksdelight

1. Yes there is a hot shoe. It is Canon Proprietary though. The camera hasn't been around long enough for any 3rd party stuff yet
2. There is a mic input - you just need an XLR adapter rig
3. Anyone serious about using this for professional projects will need a professional stabilizing rig (Red Rocks, Equinox Underwater, etc...they are being released as we speak):



4. The WB adjustments are in the menu which is quickly controlled by pressing the FUNC button and clicking the joystick left or right on the monitor. The presets for White Balance are:

AWB / Daylight / Shade / Cloudy / Tungsten / Flourescent / Flourescent H / Custom WB (point the cam at a white card and press in & hold the joystick button).

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

I almost bought the HFS-10 but ended up going for the 5D MKII. I agree with Joey, all of these new little Canons in the HFS line are very impressive cameras for the money. If you know how to shoot and light, they are even more impressive. They have very professional features for the price range. The only reason I ended up with the 5D MKII instead was that I needed to shoot a lot of stills and needed interchangeable lenses and low light capability that the HFS line doesn't offer.

But they are REALLY great little cameras for the money, IMHO, they are by far the best consumer cams on the market. Dual zebras, color bars, manual WB and audio levels w meters for around $1,000.00? Amazing.

Dan

Steve,

a $20.00 Hoodman will let you easily use the flip out LCD on any camcorder in the brightest sunlight. Easy issue to overcome.

Dan

Hey Dan...

Yeah, buddy...I tossed around going with the 5D mk 2 on a Red Rock Rig (SHWING!!!):



...then I caught the price

My Quad blew up so I need that $5000 to go for a new pixel cooker

...but for the money, this little HF S10 is $ for $ the best camera I ever owned...and I am ECSTATIC with it.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Here's your viewfinder on my camera made by HoodLoupe:



When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Hoodman:



When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

I can't find it anywhere but can you manual focus the lens on the S-10 and S-100?

[Amendment] Okay, I looked at the video again and I see the little wheel on the front left side for manual focusing... Cool!