A Word of Advice

Hello,

I'm about to start learning some video, finally, and I'd apprecite some advice from you. These may appear as a dumb question to you, but video is a whole new thing for me.

The question is: should I start with FCP or X?

I own FCP, and I know there's been a lot of issues with the X. But, there is little doubt that the X will become an amazing product in years to come, and will become the new industry standard. And I am pretty confident that every single feature in X is available in FCP.

Is there any reason why I should start learning the X instead of FCP, which I already own?


Thanks


Mac Pro 2 Quad-Core 2.8GHz Intel Xeon
6GB RAM
Snow Leopard (soon Lion)
FCPro 6

I think you should wait. If you don't already know FCP7, trying to master it now is probably going to be a waste of time -- there's very little chance Apple will revive the line.

But in my opinion, learning FCPX is not a good investment yet, either. And also, I don't consider it a good tool to learn proper general editing habits. FCPX uses an interface and a philosophy that Avid and Adobe Premiere don't -- and I dare say, that philosophy has been a pain for a lot of professional editors, as well. Right now, if I'm teaching students, I wouldn't advise that they pick up FCPX. To me, it will lead them towards very unsavory editing habits that will blow them up later. Not to mention that FCPX is currently buggier than a roach nest.

I'd say, pick up Avid or Adobe Premiere. Wait for FCPX to actually become usable before you spend time on it. That is, if it ever does become usable.


www.derekmok.com

I agree with Derek. FCP7 and FCPX are not the only choices you have.

It's also worth noting that Premiere has special pricing for FCP users that expires on October 31st.

My software:
Pro Maintenance Tools - Tools to keep Final Cut Studio, Final Cut Pro X, Avid Media Composer and Adobe Premiere Pro running smoothly and fix problems when they arise
Pro Media Tools - Edit QuickTime chapters and metadata, detect gamma shifts, edit markers, watch renders and more
More tools...

For someone starting out editing, FCPX might be fine for you. Most of the pros are complaining that they can't import older files from 7 and about the multi camera problem, but those aren't likely considerations for the newbie using one camera. My complaint right now is the problem with titles being messed up after closing and reopening. Other than that, I think it is great, very easy to learn. I just have faith that Apple will get to this soon, or maybe those of us having this problem have something that is messed up, because I still don't understand if it is widespread or just that none of the pros are using it.

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My complaint right now is the problem with titles being messed up after closing and reopening.

I just had that happen to me! I had about five lines of text, and when I reopened the project, it said, "Title" in big letters. That really needs to be fixed...

Titles disappearing is just a small manifestation. We've heard of whole projects disappearing. And when a problem like this happens often enough to be called a "bug", the software should be considered unusable. I certainly am not going to take that risk. The old FCP, even at its worst, never had whole projects disappearing, and in my 11 years with it, I never even had a single timeline go missing. That's how stable a software has to be when you're talking about work as intricate as video editing, where losing even 10 minutes is devastating.


www.derekmok.com

I have to think that something went very wrong when they issued the update to 10.0.1. Just to be sure nothing else is amiss, today I downloaded all Apple software upgrades because maybe something outside of FCPX is causing the problem. All of my projects created before 10.0.1 (about 15) are ok. But as a small test project created today with just two titles, Centered and one Speech Bubble change every time I close and reopen FCPX. The Font changes. Makes no difference if you are out of that project when you quit FCPX. It is just so puzzling that you are out of the project and it only goes bad when you quit FCPX. There is one title called "outline" that I can't get to work at all. I don't know if Apple just doesn't have enough people on this product, but it is unnerving that they don't give immediate attention to this, acknowledge the problem and offer an estimate as to when it will be fixed. You turn on the news and the World seems to be going nuts over their iPhone. How can we get someone's attention at Apple.

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How can we get someone's attention at Apple.

Apple might have a loss in leadership thing going on. Just a guess!

djole Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I own FCP, and I know there's been a lot of issues
> with the X. But, there is little doubt that the X
> will become an amazing product in years to come,
> and will become the new industry standard. And I
> am pretty confident that every single feature in X
> is available in FCP.


There is plenty of doubt that X will become the new industry standard. Nobody knows what the future holds, but right now, the "industry" is shedding FCP and moving to both Avid and Premiere Pro. X is well positioned for the consumer / prosumer which is definitely where Apple wanted this application to fall. It is the next logical progression from iMovie and very much simplifies everything so the end user really doesn't have to think much about what they're doing. Absolutely nothing wrong with this whatsoever and over the long run, it will probably be a successful tool for the up and coming artist who has never used an NLE. Also, there are many features in X not in FCP 7, primary among them support for native formats, sort of.

Now if you're asking what tool should you use to learn the craft of editing, that doesn't matter. That's an art form that's completely independent of the tool you are using. To learn the craft, use whatever you can get your hands on and just cut cut and cut some more. Then show your work to as many friends as possible and ask them to be brutally honest, then cut cut cut some more.

If you're asking about what you should learn to get a job somewhere in the next few years, then if you have FCP 7 in your hands, learn that. The skill set and language in that tool translates very nicely over to both Premiere Pro or Avid.

As for how do you get Apple's attention? You don't. The last time I actually was able to talk to someone at Apple was during testing for FCP 5. Since then I've gotten a few emails from Steve Beyes to argue some points in my articles, but then he never replies to my answers so I just ignore them. You can write a lot of emails and feature requests, but you'll never hear from them directly other than maybe a form letter. The FCP X that was released in June was precisely what Apple intended to release. If people want "pro" features added back in, then third party vendors will have to supply them.

Heck, Apple didn't even listen to their own beta testers during the FCP X testing so they're certainly not going to listen to you or me in this forum.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
biscardicreative.com

Thank you all so much for your answers. This helps a lot. I'd wondered if I should perhaps go with PPro, and after reading these answers, I just might switch. I understand that switching to PPro down the road wouldn't be a big issue even if I were to start with FCP, but even that would require some time of getting used to a new interface, and perhaps some new features. All said and done, I'm off to get a copy of PPro .

Thanks again!

One advantage of going Adobe Premiere is that if you go with the Production Premium package, you're also getting Photoshop and Illustrator, which you would have had to add on anyway even if you go FCPX or Avid. In fact, a good number of people here (I think Walter Biscardi was one of them) said that they already had Premiere installed and lurking on their systems anyway when Apple killed FCP7.


www.derekmok.com

derekmok Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
In fact, a good number of people
> here (I think Walter Biscardi was one of them)
> said that they already had Premiere installed and
> lurking on their systems anyway when Apple killed
> FCP7.

Yep, we've had the Adobe Production Premium package on our systems for years which includes Premiere Pro. Just never really had a reason to use that software until this past June.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
biscardicreative.com

I'm one of those people who figured out that FCPX in many cases is not the app I need and I can work with (at the moment).
But PPro in it's current version also does not reflect my (and others) workflow. Also the Avid demo I tried didn't allow what I want to do.
PPro came closest to the my old but very efficient workflow (which is also used by other big companies).

From my point of view you may have to wait for new releases in any case.

Andreas

I think we need to be specific in what we do when describing the pros and cons of each NLE rather than say that the NLE does not do what FCP does (being vague seems to be the new Apple). I think what Andreas is referring to is XML workflows for subtitles. Yea, I am also trying to find a good Avid to AE translator that doesn't cost a lot of money.

Most of the short form work I do can be done in FCP 7, PPro or Avid. For effects heavy work with round tripping to AE, PPro and FCP 7 is great. Less so Avid, because Avid was less open to creating SDKs for the 3rd party market.

On the other hand, multicam and collaborative long form creative (or offline) editorial, Avid is robust with good database management, followed by FCP. I noticed that a lot of XML tools don't really deal too well with multiclips. Even FCP doesn't do xmls with multiclips well, if at all.

As Walter mentioned, we don't know what is the future. But if we are looking at the "industry" at the moment, many are moving towards PPro or Avid and certainly by the end of the year many formerly FCP based editors will be pretty efficient in PPRo or Avid aside from FCP. This is a good thing as you always need to keep yourself versatile.

My gripe with FCP X is the redesigning of "a better way". They want a software that can take their iMovie users to the next level, promising them a "professional" tool. There is only so much you can simplify the process, and this obsession with trying to appeal to the mass consumer market resulted in huge chasm in their professional product line. The best anyone can say about the software is that it isn't ready yet.

There are things I like about FCP X, but for me, the cons far outweigh the pros (kinda what Apple intended but in a different way), and till now, I am just not convinced by the new design, and more than seeing it aid the progression of carpal tunnel syndrome (the thing is unusable on a Wacom), there is little professional gain, unless you cut solo single cam DSLR all day without needing an audio mix or critical color correction or heavy effects and you can survive on Apple templates and Motion transitions. If that's the case, you could also look at PPro running CUDA which is able to do more with its integration with AE.

I just cut a short video earlier this week, and I had to change the base layer of the edit 3 times in 3 days. First, it was a change in VO after I was done with the first cut, then the interviews came in and we realized we can scrap most of the VO, and replace it with INTV bites while we rework the Brolls to match. Not sure how efficiently the primary storyline concept would work in this case, but in Avid, I will replace V1 and work on V2. In FCP it is relatively similar.. Then I was wondering how this edit would fare in FCP X, because you would effectively be changing your primary storyline over and over again, while making changes to your secondary storylines..



www.strypesinpost.com

Gerard gave a good description.

My stuff is not only subtitles - though it makes a lot of my business. You can do subtitles with a lot of 3rd party apps with more or less any NLE more or less comfortable. But there is no NLE which shines there. And there are somehow at least as many subtitle formats as video formats.

Another thing for me is multicam. I build up an XML workflow for the old version of FCP which was bullet proof, easy, fast and evolving over time. I never made it available to the public - it always had been for some special customers.
For that reason some of the big guys switched to FCP, because that workflow wasn't possible with any other of the NLEs. And it's still the same. It was my fault only talk to Apple and not being notorious enough when talking to other companies. But that might change.
Everybody has to decide which NLE does match best. PPro at the moment doesn't match for me for the above reasons, but that will change. FCPX doesn't match as well - whether it will change or change not I don't know. Avid is half the way but doesn't match as well.

So the good thing with FCPX is that the other vendors think about why FCP had been so successful and try to implement some of the old features of FCP and start a new kind of communication both with users and developers.

Again it's only my not so important opinion.

Andreas

This is a whole new world since Apple threw up on itself with their release of FCP X (A.K.A. iMovie Pro). My advice to someone who has no experience at all? Stay away from Apple editing products completely (for at least 1 year) and start with Adobe Production Premium CS 5.5 (CS 6 coming soon). Dynamic Link between After Effects & Premiere and native DSLR editing is well worth the price of admission all by itself. Adobe is the only company actively going out of their way to listen to their customers. They actually tour around and do demos on productivity (we are about due for our annual sneak peek demo). You never see Apple do that.

BTW...I don't work for Adobe...but I would in a heartbeat. I just love the way they take care of their people.

When life gives you dilemmas...make dilemmanade.

Just bought 2 AVID licenses ... gonna move in that direction here ...
Saddens me ...