Do your Avid friends a favor...

It astonishes me the amount of rubbish that is written on FCP even now. Here is the actual technical blog of the ACE. This is an article by Edgar Burckson, ACE. He is no doubt a most accomplished editor with an extensive resume of films and television series.

[ace-filmeditors.org]

But even his comments regarding FCP is somewhat lacking in facts.

From his article...

"Apart from all kinds of list nightmares assistants had to deal with FCP has one major flaw that many of us have begged Apple to deal with: when you create a select reel in your record monitor and you put it in your source monitor to start editing from (in the old film days this would be called a Kem reel) all your select clips lose their connection with the original clips. There are work arounds or you can saddle up your assistant with reconnecting but it puts a big damper on the work and creative flow. Apple's latest version FCP 5 still hasn't fixed this flaw either."

He is referring to the situation of dragging a sequence into the Viewer and then all subsequent edits from the viewer are nested. Well, the magic secret answer is CMD-F10 - "Overwrite Sequence Content!"

This has been in FCP since 5.0 and perhaps even earlier, I can't recall. But the pure fact that he nor his assistants knew about this is a clear indication that hardly anyone in Hollywood knows enough about FCP!

So why aren't all the tech savvy FCP editors being snatched up into Hollywood as assistants or tech advisors for films and series?!?!??!??!

So do your Avid friends a favor and show them this feature/shortcut. Perhaps it will get them to stop bad-mouthing FCP from their limited knowledge.

-CHL

Well Kevin Monahan took Harry Miller to task point by point in a post made in 2005. Admittedly Mr Miller was a first timer and could of used a training session, but Kevin's response was quite wonderful.

[ace-filmeditors.org]

Fun to read Millers post too. Not nice of him to not respond back to Kevin.

Michael Horton
-------------------

Nice point by point from Kevin. Doesn't seem to have stuck as he is still complaining.

When Avid came along the film editors and TV editors were dragged KICKING AND SCREAMING into using it...because it didn't do this and it didn't do that the way they were used to. Once they learned it, they learned to like it.

We are seeing it again. Trying to make FCP act like their dear old Avids. Learn to use the tool and you can fly. Witnessed by many an editor who made the switch and never looked back...or if they did, they grumbled about the Avid interface. I know I did.


www.shanerosseditor.com

Listen to THE EDIT BAY Podcast on iTunes
[itunes.apple.com]

Oy Vey, here we go again...

Can we please, please put a ban on the FCP vs. Avid debate?

It really is pointless, especially when partisans from one camp bash the other side, even though they know little about the competition.

I've been working on Avid for 15 years, FCP for 5 years and I'm perfectly happy with both. If someone held a gun to my head and asked my preference, I'd probably blurt out that I prefer Avid for narrative dialogue work (love the trim mode), and I prefer FCP for anything involving effects.

Both systems do the job, neither is going to disappear any time soon, everyone benefits from the competition, so who cares if some editor prefers one or the other?

This isn't about comparison or bashing. It's about correcting factual mistakes.

And since this is an editor who is in the ACE and has some influence with his colleagues, the industry, and future editors, I would say his disinformation has more weight than others.

That's why I care. If you don't care, then don't respond.

Chi-Ho Lee
Film & Television Editor
Apple Certified Final Cut Pro Instructor

I agree. There's tons of FUD out there about FCP, and part of what we are about here, I think, is reducing that fear and doubt. Just check out the Feature Request thread for all the posts bemoaning things that FCP can't do, followed by posts that teach how to do them in FCP.

It's not Avid vs FCP. Most of us believe that both are good and useful tools, with a preference one way or the other. It's 'stop telling people FCP can't do stuff just because you hire people (or are people) who don't know how to use it'.

Oy vey to you, Phil. I gotta agree with CHL and Jude.

If I had a dollar for every "misconception" or "malicious disinformation" that I've corrected on this and other "Avid friendly" boards, I could buy an Avid Symphony Nitris. Oh, wait. I don't want one. I'll take five fully tricked out FCP on-line systems instead.


mark

This is getting silly...

I've been a member of the Editor's Guild for a long time, and I promise there is no secret cabal of Avid editors dedicated to keeping FCP down by spreading "disinformation".

Of course there are plenty of misconceptions about FCP by folks who only know Avid. There's also plenty of nonsense about Avid spouted by people who view FCP as some kind of religion. It's really not a big deal.

The reason "FCP editors" aren't being "snatched up" is that this is a very competitve job market. There are dozens of people chasing each job, and the only thing that matters is talent, experience and connections. FCP or Avid? Anyone who's serious about this work should be skilled in both.

More importantly, it seem that every time this FCP vs. Avid stuff comes up, the thread seems to devolve into personal attacks, as evidenced by the previous post. I find that really unfortunate.

Oh well, I'm of to post on a "Lightworks vs. Premiere" forum that I just discovered...

Lets take a breath. If you do a search on this forum for Avid vs FCP you won't see much bashing. Its not what we do as a rule. We help solve problems and advocate for change. When Avid vs FCP does come up it's usually hijacked by posts such as the one I am writing now and the one you just wrote. In other words it disolves into nothing.

Michael Horton
-------------------

The main problem conserning FCP or Avid is that people simply don't read the manuals, insted they jump into the interface and start cutting.
I'm not a "manual dude", but reading a manual during the time we get on the bus, subway, even in the time that "dinner is pushing lunch out", helps to find those little tips that can save your day.
Avid, FCP or Quantel. They do almost the same, its up to editor to know how?

Rui Barros
Editor Colorist Trainer
Lisbon, Portugal
RTP Post-Production
Apple Certified Trainer FCP 7
Apple Certified Pro FCP 7

Rather than moan about the merits of one or the other, the point-by-point is effective. Here's another take. I went back and read Miller's blog. (He's no relation.)

There's still some valid stuff to explore.

Kevin nailed most of them for sure. There are a few of Miller's beefs I agree with. His body memory was very Avid-oriented. He probably should have read the Pro Training book "Final Cut Pro for Avid Editors" second edition, which was pretty meaty. (I tech edited that for Diana.)

"24 frame projects are not as stable as 30 frame projects in the current version."

I agree with this. It taxed older CPU's, like mine, to bring in 23.98 stuff and have it upped to 29.97 internally and for client monitor display. BIG overhead especially in longform. Much better in FCP 5 with reverse telecine on capture, on G5's and of course Intel. But Harry's talking about G4 and he was right. I've been there.

I also understand Harry's complaint about deleting off-screen sections that were highlighted. That's a real curve ball coming from Avid. You really have to learn to Deselect All (Command-Shift-A or whatever you map it to) to avoid this. Happened to me when working fast. Very valid complaint, it requires "extra vigilance" overhead. Avid doesn't work this way : In-Outs are the only highlighted regions. Always. FCP sports two kinds of highlights-- an inverse video from explicit mouse selecting and a light tint highlight for In-Out on AutoSelected tracks. Very confusing to newbies. Not that I want that changed...

"'Add a selection' (click on an item) has always been with ?Shift?. With FCP, to select more in the timeline one uses ?Apple?. Another odd function."

Kevin replied:
"That doesn't really matter, does it? FCP is not Avid and vice versa."

That's incorrect response, in my view. The original Apple paradigm was SHIFT to add contiguous select. Command was only for discontiguous select and still is in most areas of the OS. Not here. I have no idea why it changed to Command either. Apple went off its own paradigm in FCP, and those invested with body memory on Shift got hit by it.

"Once the picture was locked, I provided LaserPacific an EDL to start scanning the film. To insure a frame accurate 24 frame list, I re-built the picture cut in an Avid, which was able to create a 24 frame list, with 24 frame timecode."

I don't know why that was done either. EDL's used to be off by a frame coming into Media Composer for Avid finishing from FCP 2.x. Even Brian Meaney was there for that one at WGBH! Haven't heard anyone squawking lately.

- Loren
Today's FCP 4 / 5 keytip:
Set a multi-parameter Motion FX Keyframe with Control K !

The FCP KeyGuide?: your power placemat.
Now available at KeyGuide Central.
www.neotrondesign.com

""'Add a selection' (click on an item) has always been with ?Shift?. With FCP, to select more in the timeline one uses ?Apple?. Another odd function."

Not so. They both work in FCP. They have the functions you pointed out. Both in list view in the Browser and in a sequence. This behavior is consistent with the Mac Finder. At least that's the case in v5.1.4. Whether it broke in some versions is a different matter. That may be the case.

All the best,

Tom

Dean, I do appreciate your post. I did not mean to imply that there is a secret Avid cult in the guild trying to keep FCP down. But as anyone can read from my original quote from Edgar Burckson, his gripe is a clear factual mistake. I'm not twisting his words into something else.

His comments again: "FCP has one major flaw that many of us have begged Apple to deal with: when you create a select reel in your record monitor and you put it in your source monitor to start editing from (in the old film days this would be called a Kem reel) all your select clips lose their connection with the original clips. There are work arounds or you can saddle up your assistant with reconnecting but it puts a big damper on the work and creative flow. Apple's latest version FCP 5 still hasn't fixed this flaw either."

There are actually two factual errors here - 1) that FCP cannot perform this type of edit and 2) This hasn't been "fixed" in version 5.

My issue is not which he prefers. Of course people can prefer whichever they like. My issue is that he is a respected member of the industry spreading his word and wisdom with factual errors which other people may view as the truth.

Like in my situation, I'm back editing on an Avid after being away for years. But some of my grips with Avid is just that I'm not used to thinking that way. Or I think it can't do a certain task when it's really me who haven't discovered how to perform that task. But I'm not writing articles pointing out flaws in Avid when it's really my lack of understanding of Avid that is hindering me.

"The reason "FCP editors" aren't being "snatched up" is that this is a very competitve job market. There are dozens of people chasing each job, and the only thing that matters is talent, experience and connections. FCP or Avid? Anyone who's serious about this work should be skilled in both."

I completely see your point - which leads exactly back to my original statement. If he was unfamiliar editing in FCP, why don't hire an experienced FCP consultant or assistant? Clearly he did not. And whoever he did hire was clearly not skilled in both or otherwise Mr. Burckson would've been told how to perform the edit he was searching for.

My questions and comments are not blind passion driven diatribe. They are indeed responses to factual mistakes.

Chi-Ho Lee
Film & Television Editor
Apple Certified Final Cut Pro Instructor

I'm really enjoying my switch... buy I'm on both.
So many more possibilties with FCP.
God Bless Larry Jordon.

I gotta say it is disappointing to read anyone who is highly regarded and respected getting things wrong. Not only wrong, but wrong in public and to write it down as a reason to belittle, in this case FCP.

I think it is fine for anyone to voice their opinion about their preference of using a particular system as long as you actually know the facts you use to backup your argument.

A lot of people will read what we all write as being the final say and often will not question us.

Its a responsibility that all of us should take very seriously when making statements about the capabilities of our systems. Whether on personal blog or public forum and especially on live TV (Mr Gates your FUD is always noted).

On that note I wish Avid didn't habitually crash, that they updated the software more often like FCP to fix bugs and got rid of multiple interfaces as otherwise its a great system that is the choice of many.

I also wish FCP had some scaleable realtime rendering processor boards available, similar to Avid et al - rather than relying on just CPU and GPU for rendering. Or maybe a transputer type link to use several macs to share the load.

I'd also like to add that in most jobs you have to continually train in new processes or kit in order to keep up, so for all the whining Avid editors out there: to learn 1 new interface (in how many years of you editing) is hardly asking too much, especially when you'll love it once you accept FCP into your life...

Hallelujah! PRAISE THE NON-LINEAR EDIT PROCESS!

The Right Hon. Reverand BenJammin Kingsley
Third Advent Hopist Baptist Church of FCP Converts and Avid Addicts & Sufferers



For instant answers to more than one hundred common FCP questions, check out the LAFCPUG FAQ Wiki here : [www.lafcpug.org]

[to learn 1 new interface (in how many years of you editing) is hardly asking too much, especially when you'll love it ]

As long as it isn't Media 100!!! AAAAArgh.

I couldn't even sell KeyGuides for that atrocious interface (despite its good image).

- Loren
Today's FCP 4 / 5 keytip:
Set a multi-parameter Motion FX Keyframe with Control K !

The FCP KeyGuide?: your power placemat.
Now available at KeyGuide Central.
www.neotrondesign.com