Final Cut Pro X - still Pro

This is now the world's longest forum thread. I am proud to be a part of it.

Now I hear rumbles that Premiere Pro is being positioned as the "real" FCP 8 !!

I'm not laughing that hard...

- Loren

Today's FCP 7 keytip:
Nudge a Canvas layer by SUBpixels
with Command-Option with Arrow keys !

Your Final Cut Studio KeyGuide? Power Pack.
Now available at KeyGuide Central.
www.neotrondesign.com

Quote
Now I hear rumbles that Premiere Pro is being positioned as the "real" FCP 8

I'll go to Avid before I go to Premiere Pro. Adobe's upgrade prices are way over the top!

There's an FCP X thread on the Apple forums that's now on page 22 with 324 messages and 21899 views.

All the best,

Tom

Went to the Apple Store this morning on another matter but thought I would ask around. None of the stores FC trainers have received training as yet and no one seemed to know a thing about it, not even the release date which I thought was June 11th.
Steve

steve-sharksdelight

I'm a subscriber to lynda.com. A lot of times they have the video training series for new software that is about to be released. This might not be the case with FCP X.

Posted the question a while back was Premier taking the market from FCP.

Now, I can report ..... ABSOLUTELY.
I think most real editors will stick to FCP6&7. The FCPX what-cha-macall-it, IMHO is crap. no mater how it uses resources or makes the intricate settings that we do now, dummy proof.

Name it "FCP Surrender".

Apple Lost me right here. I think motion will be presets only now. lol

Masters Suite CS5 i'd like to join your church.

THANKS ADOBE
You really like us.

""" What you do with what you have, is more important than what you could do, with what you don't have."

> > > Knowledge + Action = Wisdom - J. Corbett 1992 """"

eyeseesound Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> he unwrapped the
> cellophane on his CS5 Master Collection case.

How quaint that one still has to unwrap a cellophane encased box to get at program files from certain developers.

One can ride one's horse while laughing at the Write Brothers flying contraption but in a few years people will be using that "aero plane" to travel across countries and even continents in hours.

J.Corbett Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Posted the question a while back was Premier
> taking the market from FCP.
>
> Now, I can report ..... ABSOLUTELY.
> I think most real editors will stick to FCP6&7.
> The FCPX what-cha-macall-it, IMHO is crap. no
> mater how it uses resources or makes the intricate
> settings that we do now, dummy proof.
>
> Name it "FCP Surrender".
>
> Apple Lost me right here. I think motion will be
> presets only now. lol
>
> Masters Suite CS5 i'd like to join your church.
>
> THANKS ADOBE
> You really like us.

What a truly odd thing to say about something no one has ANY hands on experience with!

Really? You've seen it and used it? You have some experience with this software? Do tell.

All the best,

Tom

J.Corbett Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think motion will be presets only now. lol
>

I don't think so - lower thirds look like they'll be at least as fully featured as FCP7:



___________________________________________________
Alexandre Gollner,
Editor, Zone 2-North West, London

alex4d on twitter, facebook, .wordpress.com + .com

>The FCPX what-cha-macall-it, IMHO is crap. no mater how it uses resources or makes the intricate settings that we do now, dummy proof... Apple Lost me right here... Masters Suite CS5 i'd like to join your church.

Excellent, do go and enjoy your new "church". I assume this means we can look forward to less of your knowledge + action over here on the LAFCPUG forums?

There are obviously 3 parties on this thread. Pro-FCPX, No-FCPX and let's wait an see-FCPX. I would suggest that each of the parties have valid perceptions on something that has so far been 'teased' but is also rooted in experience of Apple and their software to greater or lesser degrees.

It seems to be the No camp are genuinely worried that their pro editing software is about to hit a roadblock. I am in this camp. Yep, i'd love 64bit and background rendering in FCP8. Nope, I'm not overly excited by what i've seen as the questions outweighing the answers make me nervous with regards to how I physically edit using the software.

It seems the Yes camp are genuinely aggrieved by any negative comments and snipe at the No camp when they post something in a kind of smug dismissive way. Obviously if FCPX had been released and they had justification to snipe in a smug dismissive way, then fair shout. If it transpires that FCPX is the equivalent of the match to the stone then i'll put my hands up and say my perceptions were wrong. But at this moment, smug and dismissive is as ahead of the game as saying FCPX is crap.

The let's wait and see camp are waiting and seeing, lending an air of calm wisdom at discussions like this.

From this perception of the camps I have I'd be happy to go for a drink with the No campers and the let's wait and see campers, but to be honest i'd imagine the pro campers to be rather insufferable and at some point in the evening would expect some little jibe about my choice of footware or some such.

Yes, it isn't out yet.
Yes, NO-ONE knows what the final version will be.
No, this doesn't stop people having opinions, perceptions or thoughts on the matter.
Yes, a thread debating the possibility of FCPX is valid, interesting (to some, myself included) and has value (to some, myself included).

But No, being smug, condescending and rude to those opposing your thoughts or wishes isn't particularly charming. We just had that over here in a referendum. Funnily enough, those that shouted the loudest and the rudest about their opponents are those you're least likely to want to introduce to your mum.


Just an observation. Obviously will be valid to some and COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY WRONG WRONG WRONG to others

For one thing, there is no need or cause for anyone being rude to eachother on here. Flaming is usually banned on most forums and I hold to that.
For a second thing, I hope everyone can see the humor in this whole thread. It is developing the same paranoia found in 'the Invasion of the Body Snatchers' . Bottom line, no one really knows anything and if they do, they're not talking. It's funny that some are already creating podcasts and webinars for sale when they themselves don't have a real clue as to what we will really wind up with. Paying for speculation, just absurd. I'm laughing. Maybe in June I will be jumping for joy, or crying, but that's life.
Steve

steve-sharksdelight

Quote
eyeseesound
It seems the Yes camp are genuinely aggrieved by any negative comments and snipe at the No camp when they post something in a kind of smug dismissive way.

Of course, those that happen to be in the yes camp (not an admission) probably feel as reasonable as you make yourself out to be, and hold the "No Partiers" as people who jump to conclusions without any facts. Here are some snippets from this thread from all 3:

Yes Camp

"so far it is jaw droppingly awesome"

"I think what we saw last night was an introduction to the new way to edit. Now that tape based systems are only a memory, the new FCP is forging ahead and developing a better way to edit without the shackles of "linear" based editing."

"I remain highly impressed by just how much of the demo was dedicated to making the actual process of editing more straightforward. Less about mechanics, more about story. "

"I wouldn't be surprised in 1 year from now; that everyone using FCPX will be laughing at the 'out-of-date' NLEs and their silly convoluted workflows..."

"Tepid applause on your side of the room Walter, standing ovation on the other side. Don't rewrite the history of the event."

"don't you think Apple's move might push the dawdlers out of the DV realm and into the HD realm? Helping move the industry on a bit? Or are you all happy to just sit on the current tech and stagnate?"

No Camp

"I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet...but FCPX DOES NOT DIGITIZE / LAY OFF TO TAPE ANYMORE!!"

"the new features demonstrated are targeted towards the amateur video maker"

"its very iMovie and Garageband like"

"This is a marketing nightmare and the how and why of Apple introducing X this way was just plain stupid."

"Personally Apple stopped thinking when they invented i. That's all it is now. i. Ego. Style over substance."

"Apple has done a miserable job communicating. If they were hoping to build up happy anticipation, they've only succeeded in pissing people off"

"FCPX clearly isn't designed with online/offline workflows in mind."

"It looks like a novice app made for those who want to start learning and then buy a real editing system once they have it down."

"Name it "FCP Surrender"."

Y'all Be Crazy Camp

"Everyone is making detailed speculation judgements too darn soon."

"It's silly speculating on what isn't there until we get all the facts"

"Sorry, but until FCPX is out and we really get a good look at it and test it thoroughly, we won't have anything to legitimately whine about."

"anyone seriously considering "other options" for their post needs before the product is released isn't an editor. They are a toy collector."



If you ask me, when FCPX is finally released, the fanboys/girls will be thrilled, but then, they're thrilled for any new release from Apple. That's kind of the definition of "fan". But also, naysayers such as yourself will likely feel completely justified in your premature opinionating because I'm positive that it'll be missing some key element that you feel it has to have, or it'll have some feature you absolutely can't stand (whether or not it can be turned off).

The rest (and hopefully this is a majority), will buy it to try it, or take a "wait and see" approach, letting others test it out for them. They'll also continue to work in FCP 7 since it's a perfectly useful app that is not going anywhere in the near future.

Walter Murch didn't switch to FCP with version 1. Of course, if I remember correctly, FCP 1.0 didn't have EDL capability, OMF export, multicam editing, multi-track audio injest or output, realtime effects or a host of other things needed for a proper post-production workflow. And look where it is now.

Andy,
And so will X, eventually. The whole point is the one you made. FCP was built up and fortified over the last ten years. Do you really want to wait for another ten years to go by in order to have access to the tools you already have in FC7?
Steve

steve-sharksdelight

I'm in the "My Camp!"

As long as I don't have to but another Adobe product, I'm in My Camp, aka: Happy Camp!

Quote

Do you really want to wait for another ten years to go by in order to have access to the tools you already have in FC7?

But that's a false comparison, Steve. One that relies on the assumption that most or all of a pro-post workflow is missing from FCPX, and also that the workflow itself is stagnant and unchanging. Though it's not possible to know the truth of the former, the latter at least can be seen evolving quite a lot in the past 4 years or so. Far fewer projects these days require an offline/online workflow than even 3-4 years ago. Far fewer projects require tape even. The post workflow landscape is changing, and the change is coming more quickly.

I'm actually a little worried for Avid. Of the 3 big NLE solutions, Avid is the only one who hasn't done a ground-up rewrite of their NLE. Avid, for all it's bells and whistles is still piling on top of an architecture that's over 30 years old.

Andy

Hey Andy,
Yes, I realize that I exaggerated but the purpose was to address the worries of those who rely on certain features and the possibility of them not being included in the initial version of X. We all have different workflows and some need certain tools more than others. I wouldn't want to have to wait for another version just to get back my waveform monitor for example. Never the less, we are all just speculating and X might be the best thing since sliced bread for all we know. Personally, I think Apple was in a serious rush to catch up to CS5's 64bit apps and will eventually bring the other apps up to speed as well. Eventually.
You're right about Avid though. It lost many people over the years and now that they have re introduced themselves, they are back in the same position as Apple was last year, playing catch up.
Steve

steve-sharksdelight

Andy Neil Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > But also,
> naysayers such as yourself will likely feel
> completely justified in your premature
> opinionating because I'm positive that it'll be
> missing some key element that you feel it has to
> have, or it'll have some feature you absolutely
> can't stand (whether or not it can be turned
> off)."




I just wish words were read in full.

I said, if I'm proved wrong i'll be in here and admit it. I'd love a new editing system that kicked every arse out there, i'm not stupid or invested in Apple hating, but yes, if it has fundamental flaws that impact on the way I edit and therefore I return to using FCP7 then why on earth should I not think it sucked? Really? And if I could turn the kiddy stuff off, well I can do that (I have opposable thumbs and everything) so why on earth would that tip me into hating? In fact, make as many gimicks as you want if I can turn them off... though my preference would be that others had to turn them on.

My premature perceptions are as valid as everyone else's, because they are all premature. Again, this thread is about debate and discussion and venting... and? Good I say. Or is a world where everyone just shuts up, doesn't have an opinion unless it is based on absolute understanding and all facts (never gonna happen that one, in pretty much anything) and simply lets companies like Apple just roll out new stuff to waves of awe a better world than one where people think for themselves and if they're wrong they take it on the chin?


"Of course, those that happen to be in the yes camp (not an admission) probably feel as reasonable as you make yourself out to be,"

You just couldn't resist could you? As reasonable as I make myself out to be...!? Yep, spent hours penning that post just for that very purpose... to make myself appear reasonable... it is completely contrived and not in the remotest bit reflective of me or my inner workings. Actually, it took an extra hour before I could submit it because I spent 30 minutes pulling the shells off snails and had to fill in my application form for a Jihad on traffic wardens in my borough.

Plus I didn't doubt that they were reasonable, nor in fact did I say that, but was just making an observation that most the insults and barbed jibes seemed to come from the Pro-camp in an attempt to diminish the opinions of the No-camp. But, hey, i'm splitting hairs, I guess as I was once taught at uni, the birth of the reader comes at the cost of the death of the author (Barthes I believe) where he basically meant you write it and they'll interpret it as they wish... now stop whining and light another Gauloise.

Andy Neil Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm actually a little worried for Avid. Of the 3
> big NLE solutions, Avid is the only one who hasn't
> done a ground-up rewrite of their NLE. Avid, for
> all it's bells and whistles is still piling on top
> of an architecture that's over 30 years old.

Avid said the next version of Media Composer will be 64-bit*. I don't know if they're planning to rewrite it from scratch but significant elements will need to be rewritten for 64-bit compatibility.

* Ok, technically they didn't say it would be 64-bit; they said the next version won't be 32-bit, but I'm presuming they're not going back to 16-bit.

My software:
Pro Maintenance Tools - Tools to keep Final Cut Studio, Final Cut Pro X, Avid Media Composer and Adobe Premiere Pro running smoothly and fix problems when they arise
Pro Media Tools - Edit QuickTime chapters and metadata, detect gamma shifts, edit markers, watch renders and more
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